BlackGun.TFF Staff. Posts: 3612 (4/1/02 5:06:30 pm) Reply Edit Del All Identifing a Belgium Browning - The bride calls me on the cell phone from a garage sale asking if I want a Belgium Browning 20Ga. Semi Auto Shotgun. We chat about the condition as she describes it to me. I asked her to look on the barrel and see if the word Belgium appeared she said NO all it had was 'Browning Arms Co. St Louis Mo.'
And (BP) in a circle. I had her ask the seller how they identified it as a Belgium and the man said 'cause I told you so' She sat the gun down and walked away! Which is less than what I would have done. Anyway how do we identify a Belgium Browning in the future if it's not written in the barrel in English.
Serial number is blocked out but is 6 digits. (A=16 gauge, B-12 gauge, C=20 gauge) 1946+229,000-237,000 1947 237001-.
I suffer from occasional loss of mental stability, and become very violent with only slight provocation. The Veterans Administration has determined that both mental and physical harassment of my person may be hazardous to your health and well being. So stay away from my Donuts!!
BlackGUN warpig883.TFF Staff. Posts: 2956 (4/1/02 7:08:41 pm) Reply Edit Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - I was in a gun store today looking at 20 gauge A-5's.
All the ones there either said made in Japan or made in herstal belgium on them. Some of the Belgium ones were in big letters on the left side of the reciever and some in small letters in the barrel. I need a A-5 light 20 with choke tubes. This would be a Japan one as none of the Belgium light 20's came with choke tubes as far as I can tell. AntiqueDr.TFF Senior Staff. Posts: 2385 (4/2/02 9:55:50 pm) Reply Edit Del ezSupporter Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - You sure it was an A5 and not a B2000?
I believe she should have looked on the other side of the barrel. Is it still available??? 1 - 100, Antique or Modern! Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer a81492 Member Posts: 17 (4/3/02 10:33:19 am) Reply Edit Del proof is in the. Bottle?: - BlackGun, Country of origin is normally rollstamped (sometimes in tiny little fine print character thingys) on barrel. Could be on R or L side. Lacking hands-on visuals & rollstamped origins, probably the most foolproof way to ID these critters is by Proofmarks & S/N's.
Believe Belgian production ceased in '76 or so - made in Japan & Portugal after that (& possibly Canada?) at least on some models of longarms. Either way, should be visible on bbl, no matter how miniscule the print. Best, joey reedbuster V.I.P. Forum Host Posts: 413 (4/8/02 1:34:54 am) Reply Edit Del Re: proof is in the. Bottle?: - Shoot Blackgun, I wish I would have seen this post earlier. Anyway, you can date a gun per the serial no. At Browning.com, Made in Belgium will be stamped on the barrel.
Here is the kicker, lots were made in Belgium but assembled in Portugal so they will say 'made in Belgium Assembled in Portugal' and the like. On all the A5's that where made and assembled in Belgium the butt plate has he distinctive FN 'fabrique national' logo and the barrel will only say Made in Belgium. I would have to research the other proofs but usually the butt plate is a good first indicator. Quack, Reedbuster Is that a jelly donut?
Browning-The Best There Is. Whitebear74 Member Posts: 6 (4/9/02 8:50:37 pm) Reply Edit Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - Info I have says Browning used the barrel address of 'St.Louis. Missouri' from 1952 to 1958 'St Louis, Missouri and Montreal, P.Q.' From 1959 to1968 'Morgan, Utah and Montreal, P.Q.' From 1969 to 1975 1976 and up were made by Miroku of Japan. I've got a 1958 A-5 Light Twelve & barrel says: on left -Browning Arms Co. special steel 12 Ga.shells 2 3/4' C12-70 ELG, & PV Belgian proof mark and a few others.
The serial number on barrel matches receiver. On right side- Made in Belgium Receiver has Belgian PV proof mark below the ejection port. Buttstock has a ' round knob' pistol grip and a FN buttplate. Info says they changed to a 'flat knob' pistol grip in 1967. I have a Buck Special barrel also with: left side- Fabrique Nationale Herstal Belgique.Acier Special -C12- Cart 2 3/4' & various proof marks right side- Browning Arms Company Morgan,Utah & Montreal, P.Q. Made in Belgium stars.
are choke code C12-70 is European designation for 12 ga. 2 3/4' chamber. Hope that helps. AntiqueDr.TFF Senior Staff.
Posts: 2429 (4/9/02 11:22:49 pm) Reply Edit Del ezSupporter Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - That applies to Auto-5 shotguns. I am willing to bet that the (BP) is actually (PB), which makes it a B-2000 (made by Beretta for Browning). 1 - 100, Antique or Modern! Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer whitebear74 Member Posts: 10 (4/10/02 10:56:15 am) Reply Edit Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - If it were a B-2000 would not the barrel address be Morgan, Utah & Montreal PQ instead of St. Louis, Missouri for first 2 years of production???? From 1976 up what are they marked- Salt Lake City or Ogden, Utah?
B-2000's in 12 & 20 ga.- parts made in Belgium but assembled in Portugal, approx 115,000 imported to US between 1974 -1983. BP = Browning Portugal?
I don't know, but there is still the matter of the address on the barrel. Edited by: whitebear74 at: 4/10/02 12:53:56 pm AntiqueDr.TFF Senior Staff. Posts: 2430 (4/10/02 1:45:31 pm) Reply Edit Del ezSupporter Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - I misspoke.
The Browning B-80 was manufactured by Beretta and bears the Beretta proof on the barrel. That Beretta proof is the closest I can recall to what was described. 1 - 100, Antique or Modern! Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer warpig883.TFF Staff. Posts: 3075 (4/10/02 4:48:02 pm) Reply Edit Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - Were the A-500G or A-500R ever made in Belgium? AntiqueDr.TFF Senior Staff. Posts: 2432 (4/10/02 5:21:21 pm) Reply Edit Del ezSupporter Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning - Parts manufactured in Belgium, fit/assembled in Portugal.
1 - 100, Antique or Modern! Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer.
Sorry to re open an old thread, but I have an identification question. I have a Browning A-5 round knob, with Made in Belgium on the barrel. It has the barrel address of Browning Arms Co. It clearly has the PV stamp on it, has the FN butt plate. It fits the 1952 to 1958 range except for the serial number.
The serial number is located on the bottom in front of the load port, right? If so the serial number is 8Z 4469. If I am looking at the right number, then this serial number does not exist on the Browning page. Oh, and it has the marking of. Special Steel 20 Ga.shells 2 3/4' on the barrel also.
Could sombody provide a full star code list so I know what choke my gun has. Any help would be appriciated. Btw I inherited the gun, so it is my only refference point. Thanks, Warlock. My books on Brownings are boxed up at the moment,so I will have to use other sources: My old Blue Book states that from 1958-1976 Brownings were serial numbered with a number first followed by a letter denoting type of gun. So the '8' would be for 1958 (most likely) or 1968 (probably should be a 68 instead).This must have started sometime late in 1958 (in honor of my birth perhaps?
) The z would probably denote a Lightweight 20 ga frame. Full choke (I have read all the barrels start as full choke and are opened to whatever is wanted).- (or one half star) Improved Modified. Modified.-(or one half star) Improved Cylinder.$ Skeet. Cylinder Hope this is correct and helps you. The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts.
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This guide is for the Browning A5 16 gauge only. Browning 12ga numbers began with number 1 in 1903. The 16ga number 1 began in 1909. The two sets of numbers are different.
A common mistake I have seen in many, many, gun shops and online sites is to assign the 12ga serial number date to a 16ga. I compiled this quick reference serial number guide for dating 16ga Browning A5s and the Auto 5-3 Shot, by serial number. I decided to share it here since this is where much of my limited knowledge came from. The serial number and dates are approximations only. These dates were gleaned primarily from Sauerfan's timeline and the Shirley/Vanderlinden book. Details about dates, transitions, exceptions, and other nuances can be found in the Shirley/Vanderlinden book, Browning Auto 5 Shotguns.
I took the liberty to use the Calandar Year Jan. 31 for the X series. FN used the Fiscal Year July-June. Other factors need to be taken into consideration to properly date your gun.
I found what I thought was a very early 1948 Sweet Sixteen based on the serial number. Browning informed me the gun left the factory in 1955. 1909 1 - 3200 1910 to 1914 There is only vague info about 16 ga SNs in SV (page 74) for the time 1910 to 1914.
SNs 3201 – 15000 were invoiced between 1st Jan. 1910 and 30th June 1913. Last shipped before the outbreak of WWI was SN 19642. 1915 to 1918 No production due to German occupation of Belgium during WWI.
1919: 19671-: 20501 -: 22238 -: 24051 – Barrel Address (US market) BROWNING ARMS COMPANY OGDEN UTAH BROWNING’S PATENT 26001 –: 28401 -: 35651 – 40010 (app.) 1926: 40011 (app.) -: 51601 -: 57901 – Ventilated barrel rib (as an option) and barrel address change to 'Ogden Utah and St Louis Mo. ' 65101 – Barrel Address (US market) BROWNING ARMS COMPANY ST LOUIS MO. New choke codes replaced the choke words stamped on the barrels. 82751 – 90501 – Introduction of the three shot Auto 3 with shorter magazine tube and shorter forearm marked “Browning 3 Shot” 94001 – 96073 – Receiver legend Now with BROWNING and John M. Browning’s bust between “TRADE” and “MARK” 96144 – 99501 - 1 The 'Sweet Sixteen' was released but limited to a test market.
103501 – 105850.1937. Introduction of the “Sweet Sixteen” sale to the public. Barrel Rib four possibilities in 1937: none, solid (hollow) rib, ventilated rib with X posts or matted finish for Sweet Sixteen (SV page 98) Barrel Ring as before or drilled with three holes on the barrels of Sweet Sixteen Safety Gold plated (Sweet Sixteen only) Trigger Gold plated (Sweet Sixteen only) Misc. “Sweet Sixteen” not separated by SN. No serial number distinction between the Sweet 16 and the Standard 16 gauge A5s. 105850 – 1: 111001 – 1: 118201 – 1: 126124 – 126175.1940 – 1953.
'A' Prefix serial number on the side of the receiver, American made Browning by “Remington Arms.” 1944-1948 Post war Liberation guns, Serial number 146 'are so out of sequence there is no way to establish accurate production dates' S/V p76 b 1944: 1: 1 Post war Belgium made “X Prefix Series.” No serial number distinction between the Sweet 16 and the Standard 16 gauge A5. This is the “unmarked” Browning, era of the Sweet Sixteen. These are among the rarest of the A5 Sweet Sixteen but are priced as standard 16 gauge A5s in value guides. This is the first year of standard production of the 2 ¾ inch chambered 16 gauge. It is also the last year of the non-engraved sweet sixteen. The popularity and success of the Sweet Sixteen from 1937 through 1947 earned it a permanent place in Browning marketing as the 1948 engraved “Sweet Sixteen.” 1947 is also the only year the 3 shot 2 ¾ 16ga was marketed in the USA.
Getting one of these extremely rare original factory issued guns at a standard gun price is a trophy in itself. 1947 – 1953 “X Prefix Series” 1947: X1001 - X: X13667 - X: X23502 – X: X34601 – X: X43701 – X: X59401 - X: X77701 – X Introduction of the “Sweet Sixteen” in script engraved on the receiver. Prior to 1948 no sweet 16 was factory engraved “Sweet Sixteen.” Glen Jensen, Browning Historian took the position with me that the true “Sweet Sixteen” was born when the receiver was engraved “Sweet Sixteen” in 1948. He acknowledged the lightweight A5 16 gauge guns produced between 1936 and 1947 are in fact Sweet Sixteen and identified as such in the factory issued catalogues. If the serial number records archived at Browning indicate the non-engraved guns are a Sweet Sixteen, Glen Jensen would issue a letter on Browning letterhead with an official seal for a fee authenticating the gun as a “Sweet Sixteen.” Since Glen Jensen's retirement in 2014, the Browning Customer Service department continues to provide research on individual guns and if records exist will issue a letter documenting requested information.
1953 – 1954 A - Series 'A' in front of or above the serial number. These guns were a transitional series between the X and the below R/S marked guns. A1-A958 1953 - 1957 R = Standard Weight, S = Sweet Sixteen 1953: S 01 – S 3700 R 01 - R 3100 1954: S 3701 – S 24850 R 3101 - R: S 24851 – S 49350 R 20801 - R: S 49351 – S 72300 R 48751 - R: S 72301 – S 99908 R 74701 – R – 1958 Second series of 'A' prefix A Serial Number 01 November 14, 1957 and T Serial Number T229 November 24, 1957 1957-1958 A or T #01 – 10900 A Indicated Sweet Sixteen and T indicated standard 16 1958 – 1967 The single digit precedes the S and R. 8S,8R = 1958, 9S, = 1959, 0S = 1960, 7S =1967.1958-1977. FN High Grade Lightweight Series May include the letters following the serial number 'SAC,B,F,N,Z' S/V p81.1958 #001-17595 These will have a small two digit (year 59 = 1959) number following the serial number.
Some have shown up with the entire year stamped instead of the two digit year code.1966 - 1977.17595 - was the last year of the “R” (4R) Standard Weight A5 16ga. 1968 – 1976 The two digit year precedes the S.
68S = 1968, 76S = 1976 1976 Japanese Production Began, however, FN still produced Browning “Made in Belgium” shotguns into 1984, SV p65. The serial number coding system changed to the serial number preceding the date code. Serial began with 1000 – 99999 followed by the model code 221 Sweet Sixteen and 171 Superlight 16 and two letter year( T=6, R=7, P=8). See Browning Website 1976 1000 221 RT – Sweet Sixteen 1000 171 RT – Superlight Sixteen 1978 1000 221 RP – Sweet Sixteen 1987 1000 221 PR – Sweet Sixteen. Hi, Welcome to SGW.
Dating these old guns are at best an educated guess. The dates listed here are based on records/logs with the range of dates. I found three different lists but these dates seem to be the best. My experience has been that you are correct in guessing along with us that your gun is dated 1951. It may have in fact have been produced in 1951 but left Browning one to three years before or after 1951.
It gets complicated as to why some were early or late. Thanks for the opportunity to answer a great question. Please feel free to ask other questions you may have on that gun. Hi, Welcome to SGW. Dating these old guns are at best an educated guess. The dates listed here are based on records/logs with the range of dates. I found three different lists but these dates seem to be the best.
My experience has been that you are correct in guessing along with us that your gun is dated 1951. It may have in fact have been produced in 1951 but left Browning one to three years before or after 1951. It gets complicated as to why some were early or late. Thanks for the opportunity to answer a great question. Please feel free to ask other questions you may have on that gun. My first post.
Thank you for putting together this information. Could you please explain how a gun could have left Browning one to three years before it was 'produced'? I am interpreting 'produced' as actually manufactured, which must not be right because then it would be an impossibility. My father just passed away and gave me his shotgun. Its serial number is S 63661, which puts it into the year 1956. However, my father always told me that he got the shotgun as a high school graduation present, which would mean sometime around 1949 or 1950. And I am fairly certain that I have a picture of him, misplaced right now, that show him with the shotgun in the earliest 50's.
![Browning Auto 5 20 Gauge Serial Numbers Browning Auto 5 20 Gauge Serial Numbers](/uploads/1/2/5/6/125664245/150607573.jpg)
Hi Ronyahski, Thanks for your response and question. The date discrepancies are due to three factors: 1) The FN factory stamped serial number, 2) The FN/Browning inventory date, 3) The Browning shipping/sale date. I now own 7 collectable (to me) Browning A5s. I have called the Browning historian on each to discover all I can about each gun including when the gun left the Browning factory.
No factory records could be found on three. The Browning historian informed me of the dates four of my guns were sold and shipped from Browning. I have letters on Browning letterhead on three of my guns. Of the four guns with factory records, two had serial numbers that matched the published serial number dates listed in The Book 'Browning Auto-5 Shotguns' HM Shirley, Anthony Vanderlinden. One gun left Browning one year after the published serial number date. One gun left Browning two years before the published serial number date.
The gun that left Browning a year later is easy to explain. It was manufactured in Belgium and had the serial number stamped in 1946.
It was shipped to the Browning warehouse in November of 1946 and has a serial number date 1946. It was sold and shipped from Browning to a customer in 1947. The letter dates the gun as a 1947 gun. It is a contender for the earliest (lowest serial number) A5 Light Twelve made. The A5 Light Twelve was not available until 1947. This was all during the first year of production after WWII.
This gun was held in the Browning warehouse until someone ordered an A5 Light Twelve. A gun configured a certain way may sit in the warehouse, weeks, months or years until that configuration was ordered. As I mentioned earlier in my post I found a 1948 serial numbered gun that left Browning in the 50s.
My other gun was custom ordered. The special custom order was sent to the Belgium FN factory by Browning 1935.
There were thousands of barrels, receivers and other parts on hand and in stock at that time. In 1935 parts were made years before they became a finished gun and logged into Browning inventory.
In 1935 my gun was made with the most recent available parts. These parts were stamped with a serial number that would normally have made it into the 1938 inventory as a complete gun. In 1935 the Belgium custom shop took the fresh parts and assembled the gun with the custom configuration and shipped it to Browning in the 1936 inventory.
This gun was received in the USA Browning warehouse in 1936 with a 1938 serial number. The letter from Browning shows the special order configuration and date it was shipped to the customer, early 1936.
This type of scenario is outlined in 'The Book.' Some owners/collectors declare the serial number date. Some owners/collectors declare the Browning factory issue date.
Hope this helps.